MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: New Jersey Port Authority Scandal
Interview
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MATTHEWS: Senator Manchin, the president`s taking a nap. So we`re back to political gaming this whole thing. My question to you is, when we look at the situation over there, as I`ve just said, the Sunnis were in power, we knocked them out of power, put the Shias in power. The Sunnis are trying to get back into power. The Shias are now going for help with Iran. They brought in the Iranian national guard, the Revolutionary Guard in to help them.
How did we get in the middle of a civil war between Sunni and Shia that`s been going on for a thousand years, that`s going to go on for another thousand years, and we got involved in taking sides? I don`t get it. Your thoughts.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D), WEST VIRGINIA: Well, a lot of people don`t get it, Chris, and that`s been predicted for quite some time. I`ve often said this. If money or military might would change that part of the world, we`d have done it by now.
And to bring us back into this, I don`t think anything will come out of it. And how long do you want us to stay? I know I have my -- my fellow colleagues, some of them, who think that we should have still had a presence, we should have stayed in -- in perpetuity. I don`t -- I don`t buy into that. I don`t agree with that.
Now, what do we do now? Can we help? We`ve got to see if they have the will to defend their country. Do they have the will to defend themselves? Are they willing to fight for it? We`ve got an awful lot invested in that country, and the sacrifice our men and women and our soldiers and families have made is beyond compare to anything else anybody else has done, not counting the resources we put there.
Now we`re finding out that they`ve taken our equipment, our supplies, our weapons, and now moving into Syria to reengage in that fight and use them against us, I`m sure. And someone said, Well, what should we do? They`ve suggested maybe air strikes. That`s something I think would be more receptive, if we think that we can get the rest of the United Nations involved with us to try to help them defend themselves.
But they`ve got to show the will to fight. And I don`t think, Chris, there`s any. I haven`t detected any type of support to put troops on the ground again back in Iraq.
MATTHEWS: Well, you did use the term "country" and you say defend their country. I mean, you`re using American terminology we both grew up with.
MANCHIN: Yes. I know.
MATTHEWS: It`s nation against nation. But it isn`t exactly that. It`s the Shia in power, that we put in power, against the Sunnis that had power, who are now supporting those trying to retake it for the Sunnis.So how do we say who`s the patriot here by even using our lingo of patriotism? How does it fit in that kind of a context?
MANCHIN: Well, I...
MATTHEWS: That`s what I wonder what we`re doing shooting on either side, at this point. I don`t know.
MANCHIN: Yes.
MATTHEWS: I`ve been against this from the beginning. I don`t like to say I told you so because Senator McCain can say I told you so. Sure, if we stayed there with 100,000 troops for 100 years, we`ll always be there with 100,000 troops. But you know, McCain and the others, who I respect, aren`t they talking about maybe 5,000 troops? And would that stop an overthrow of that government? Do we have any reason to believe that, a small contingent of U.S. forces who are not in combat somehow stopping these people, insurgents, now from winning?
MANCHIN: If we haven`t been able train them and give them the skills and the equipment to defend themselves now, right, wrong or indifferent, whether it be Shi`ite, Sunnis, wherever we are, we`ve already made our bed.
And if that`s where we are, and we`re going to basically try to see if they can hold onto what little bit of a country or a regime that they have, I don`t believe putting 5,000 troops on the ground, we`ll ever get 5,000 troops out. I think it`ll be in perpetuity, and I am not that for that.Chris, I don`t believe that we can change that hatred between these sects. I just don`t believe that can be done.
So with that being said, can we help them gain control? How can they have a unified government to where they can all work together in some form of a democracy?
MATTHEWS: Yes, well, they don`t want one.
(CROSSTALK)
MANCHIN: They don`t want one, that`s right.
MATTHEWS: They didn`t want one. Maliki doesn`t want Sunnis in his government. Last question. How dire is it, based upon the briefing you got from the administration, in Baghdad?
MANCHIN: Pretty bad.
MATTHEWS: Are they worried Baghdad might be taken?
MANCHIN: Well, basically, they think of -- oh, my goodness, it surely could. Whoever thought that they would move this quick and this fast? Whoever thought that four regiments would completely give up and not even fight? This has caught everybody by surprise. And we asked that question. That was a surprise to everybody.
Well, if that was a surprise, what makes you think they can defend Baghdad? Now, we have forces in Baghdad, basically, that`s protecting some of our people there, and we`ve got to make sure that they are able to be safe, and if not, get them out of there if it`s going to fall inevitably, or if we`re going to be able to defend and help them strengthen themselves to defend that area.
And are we going to divide the country? Is it going to be split up, half of it going to Syria, half of it going to Iran? That doesn`t make sense to me.
MATTHEWS: Well, Senator, as you know -- as you know, our business, the media, hasn`t been able to predict what`s going to happen in Richmond, let alone what`s going to happen in Baghdad.
(LAUGHTER)
MANCHIN: Yes.
MATTHEWS: Anyway, thank you so much for coming. You`re a serious man. Thanks for coming on tonight.
MANCHIN: Thanks, Chris.
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