MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" Interview - Transcript
Interview
MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" Interview - Transcript
MSNBC "Hardball With Chris Matthews" Interview With Rep. Jared Polis Interviewer: Chuck Todd
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PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: (From videotape.) I know that many in this room don't believe that progress has come fast enough, and I understand that. It's not for me to tell you to be patient, any more than it was for others to counsel patience to African-Americans who were petitioning for equal rights a half century ago. But I say this: We have made progress, and we will make more.
MR. TODD: Welcome back to "Hardball." That was President Obama speaking to gay rights activists today at a White House event honoring Lesbian-Gay-Bisexual-Transgender Pride Month. Many activists are frustrated with the president's lack of movement on repealing the Defense of Marriage Act and the military's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. So is President Obama breaking his campaign pledges to some of his most faithful supporters?
Democratic Congressman Jared Polis of Colorado is one of the first openly gay members of Congress to get elected running as an openly gay American.
Congressman, thank you for joining me. I want to start off --
REP. POLIS: Well, it's a pleasure to be here, Chuck.
MR. TODD: I want to start off with another quote the president said today, which seems to me he went a little bit farther on "Don't ask, don't tell" than we'd heard before. Take a listen.
PRESIDENT OBAMA: (From videotape.) I believe "Don't ask, don't tell" doesn't contribute to our national security. (Scattered applause.) In fact, I believe preventing patriotic Americans from serving their country weakens our national security. (Applause.)
My administration is already working with the Pentagon and members of the House and the Senate on how we'll go about ending this policy, which will require an act of Congress. Someday I'm confident we'll look back at this transition and ask why it generated such angst. But as commander in chief in a time of war, I do have a responsibility to see that this change is administered in a practical way and a way that takes over the long term. That's why I've asked the secretary of Defense and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to develop a plan for how to thoroughly implement a repeal.
MR. TODD: Congressman, simple question: Is that enough?
REP. POLIS: Look, I mean, this is a policy that continues to weaken our military every day it's in existence. I mean, how much sense does it make to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars training a good soldier only to discharge them only because of who they choose to date?
I am proud to take Obama at his word today. I think he's going to be moving to end this policy. And the sooner we can do it, the better we'll be able to secure the interests of our nation abroad.
MR. TODD: Now, he has made this distinction that this has to be done through Congress. There has been some legal analysis that says, "You know what? He could stop the discharges immediately through an executive order." You know, do you feel like he's waffling here a little bit by not immediately stopping these discharges with the power of the pen that he has?
REP. POLIS: I think we're both in agreement that in the long run what we need to do is an act of Congress to put it in statute that people cannot be kicked out of the military merely because of their sexual orientation. I would like to see the president go a little bit further and, at least while we're discussing this issue and while we're working to enact this change, that we should suspend anybody being kicked out of the military over this.
MR. TODD: Now, there's been some speculation that politics has a lot to do with this. And you look back on the first year of President Clinton's term, and the gays-in-the-military decision at the time was seen as one that seemed to bog him down, give members of his own party problems when they were trying to run for re-election in 1994, among a whole bunch of so-called culture war issues.
Are you worried that that's what the White House is doing here, that maybe they're letting potential midterm political issues get in the way of what they want to do?
REP. POLIS: You know, this is really one of the least controversial issues that we're dealing with in Washington. I mean, we're talking about the energy issue, cap and trade, health care policy, universal care. Even an issue like gay marriage, there's really fervent people on both sides of that issue.
This is an issue, allowing people to serve in the military, making sure we put our best foot forward, 70 percent of the American public believe we ought to do it. Even some of the authors of the initial policy -- Colin Powell, Sam Nunn -- have said it's time to change this policy. Really the only area where I've seen any disagreement over this is under the Capitol dome, and I think we need to make a lot of progress on that. But the American people and the military are more than ready.
MR. TODD: All right, I want to read you something here that candidate Obama wrote in a letter to the gay community. And it said, quote, "Unlike Senator Clinton, I support the complete repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act, known colloquially as DOMA, a position I have held since before arriving in the U.S. Senate. While some say we should repeal only part of the law, I believe we should get rid of that statute altogether. Federal law should not discriminate in any way against gay and lesbian couples, which is precisely what DOMA does."
Congressman, obviously I'm guessing you completely agree with that statement. A lot of gay rights activists completely agree with that statement. Is his action in office matching those words?
REP. POLIS: You know, when the Defense of Marriage Act was first passed, it was more of a hypothetical issue. There weren't, in fact, any gay marriages to ban. We now have an increasing number of states -- and it is a state prerogative to define marriage -- who are choosing to allow same-sex marriage. My home state of Colorado doesn't yet, but many other states do. And the federal government needs to respect those, just like they respect other marriages in the states.
I think that, again, we can take Obama at his word. He reiterated, just last week, he is committed to repealing DOMA in its entirely. And we need to build the political will to do that.
MR. TODD: How serious are these fund-raising boycotts? Is it having an impact on the Democratic Party in your mind?
REP. POLIS: Well, you know, what a number of us were disappointed with was the president's decision to defend DOMA in the language he used in a brief a couple of weeks ago. First of all, he could have chosen not to defend it. There's not a legal requirement to do that. The attorney general of California, Jerry Brown, chose not to defend Proposition 8 to the state Supreme Court. If he had chosen to defend it, he could have been using legal arguments that were less offensive to the community than some of the citations that were included.
So, again, this is a policy where it's time to say states have the ability to determine marriage. And for the federal government's purposes, for tax purposes, et cetera, we need to accept that. I hope we can move forward and repeal DOMA.
MR. TODD: All right, Congressman Jared Polis, you're one of the lucky few members of Congress who gets to go spend the summer recess in Boulder, Colorado; not a bad job -- not a bad place to call home. Thanks very much.
END.
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