"Face the Nation," July 9, 2023

Interview

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Thanks for having me.

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When you look at the gun numbers in the state of Utah...

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... those numbers increasing are not being driven by people getting caught in crossfire or, you know, kids shooting each other.

It's being driven specifically by mental health and suicide issues. Now, we're doing more to help keep guns away from kids, keep them locked up. But -- but what is it that's -- that's driving that desire to say life is not worth living anymore? And how do we, as a society, collectively, work to make sure the kids know that it is going to get better and -- and there is a reason to stay here?

That's a huge focus for us as well.

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Correct.

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I don't think so.

I don't understand -- that -- that's -- that's more of a content restriction. I'm sure we'll have social media companies suing the state of Utah. In fact, we're going to be suing social media companies for -- for the harm and damage that they're -- they're causing our young people. I -- I suspect that, at some point, the Supreme Court will weigh in on this decision when it comes to restricting youth access.

There's not just a correlation between social media use and an increase in -- in suicide, anxiety, depression, self-harm. There is a causal link there.

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Yes, so we -- we don't have an end date. But we -- we do need more data and more information.

This is such a charged topic...

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... that it's been -- it's been impossible, I believe, to get good information here in the United States right now, because half the country doesn't want to touch it, and the other half is convinced that they already know the answer.

And so I have really tried to look elsewhere at conversations that are happening in other countries, specifically in Europe, around -- around this, where it's not quite as charged, looking at Sweden and Finland and France and the U.K., other countries where they don't have the same culture war battles that we're having here.

And they're also pushing pause. I mean, many of those countries are saying, look, we're -- this is...

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On both.

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Both.

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All of -- all of the above, yes. Yes.

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Yes.

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All very political groups.

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And, again, I don't believe -- I believe that they are politicized. Those groups are politicized. I don't believe...

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I absolutely do.

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Yes, yes. On this issue, it -- it's impossible to get unbiased information out of the United States right now on this issue. I just don't believe it.

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Yes.

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Yes, do you have the numbers on -- on -- on hormone therapy, and -- and -- and puberty blockers...

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... in the past year?

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It -- they're exploding.

We -- we went from, like, 10, 10 years ago to several hundred this past year, I mean, those numbers. And, again, this is...

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In Utah alone, yes.

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Well, that's -- that's what the scientists in other countries are actually trying to figure out, where, in -- in the United States, we're putting our head in the sand and saying, we're not even going to talk about this or look about this. You can't even have a discussion about it.

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In other countries, they're saying, something is happening, hundreds in my state, thousands all across the country that are making requests for this.

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And they have -- they're -- they're presenting with several other mental health issues as well.

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Only in terms of surgeries.

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Yes, the other data -- and you can look anywhere.

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This is not unique. Yes, there aren't a lot of surgeries happening.

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But the trend, it's not just up. It's up exponentially. It's -- it's -- it's a hockey stick increase.

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Correct.

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In my veto letter, I said, I actually agree with what you're trying to accomplish here. I think it is wrong to have a -- a transgender female, a person who was -- who was born a male taking scholarships, records, away from people...

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The -- the -- the -- the Penn swimmer is the -- the example of that, right?

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The example that everybody uses.

And -- and so that -- that was my point. I -- that should not happen. What we were negotiating in the state of Utah was something that would allow some kids to play and others not to, depending on their -- their physical capability.

I do believe that there is a lack of compassion and empathy in our politics today. We are -- we have a toxic division. The culture wars are happening. There are culture warriors on all sides that are trying to change -- trying to get their way, trying to cancel others or prevent others from -- from being able to do what -- what they want to do.

And it's definitely a problem. I'm -- I'm hoping that Utah can be an example of being a little better on that side.

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Yes.

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Well, I -- I hope so. I like governors. I think governors are great.

I think governors have real experience. The great thing about governors is, we actually have to get stuff done, right? We can't just do the performance thing. You have to -- you know -- potholes aren't -- aren't partisan. You have to -- you have to do those kinds of things.

And I think we have lots of amazing choices. And I'm really hopeful that we -- can we can turn the page and -- and try something else, someone who can win, which I think is important. And I think any of our -- any of those governors could win. And -- and I certainly hope we'll give them a chance.

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Thank you. It's been an honor. Thank you.

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