MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Zoe Lofgren

Interview

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Joining us now is California congresswoman and member of the January 6th investigation, Zoe Lofgren.

[21:30:02]

Congresswoman Lofgren, it`s a real pleasure to see you tonight. Thank you very much for joining us.

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Thanks for having me, Rachel.

MADDOW: So, I know that some of this is matters that`s in the middle of the investigation and isn`t necessarily publicly facing. Everything that I`ve discussed is publicly facing. I don`t have any secret information.

Let me ask you if I misstated any of it or you think I`ve got any of it the wrong way around.

LOFGREN: Not that I`m aware of, no. It`s interesting, isn`t it?

MADDOW: It is interesting. What is the significance if we know it of the fact that there is White House metadata on that letter from the Justice Department to Georgia state officials telling them to flip the election results?

LOFGREN: Well, that`s one of the questions we wanted to pose to Mr. Clark and that I hope we will yet be able to pose to him, on the depositions now been scheduled to December 16th, I think. We have ascertained that his health condition is real. It`s not a ruse.

We did ask for evidence of that. And are satisfied it`s legit. So rescheduled.

MADDOW: In terms of that letter, we do have these sort of parallel situations in which we know from public reporting that Mr. Clark was part of the effort to try to direct what appeared to be sort of the gravitas on the authority of the Justice Department toward an effort to induce states to flip their election results. We also know from public-facing reporting that Mr. Eastman appears to have participated in a similar effort targeting at least legislative officials in the state of Arizona.

Another member of your committee, Adam Schiff, has been clear in his public remarks that he believed those efforts to pressure the states to change election results, that those were crimes.

Do you believe that those were crimes? Do you believe that the potential criminal behavior as described in that public reporting is why Mr. Clark and Mr. Eastman are now fearing enough for their own -- fearful enough that they are invoking their Fifth Amendment rights.

LOFGREN: Well, it could well be. You know, it`s worth reading what the Fifth Amendment actually says. No person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself. Well, it looks like Mr. Clark and now Mr. Eastman think that there is going to be or could well be a criminal prosecution based on their actions. So they`re in a position to know more than I am what they did.

And I think it`s a very troubling and quite possibly criminal.

MADDOW: If there were -- was evidence either of state crimes, obviously, interfering with or intimidating election officials I believe it`s a criminal in every state, certainly a crime in federal elections. If your committee turns up sound, voluminous uncontested evidence that such crimes were committed, what would the process be? Obviously you guys can`t bring a prosecution.

Would it go through prosecute of a formal referral to the Justice Department?

LOFGREN: Well, it`s speculation to some extent. But you`re right. We`re a legislative body. We`re trying to get all of the facts, so that we can tell the American people and also adopt legislation that would help prevent something like this from happening again.

But certainly any information that we are able to discover will be made available to executive branch members who are prosecutors, either in state or the federal level. We`re not doing this to keep secrets. We`re doing it to shed light.

MADDOW: One of the things that we have learned in local reporting in Arizona and in Michigan if not in other states this week, is that investigators from your committee have made contact with local officials in those states. "Arizona Republic" had a big long run down of all the different people at various governments who have been contacted by investigators from your committee. We also have public officials in Michigan have been approached and done interviews.

Can you tell us what the idea is behind that part of the investigation going be out and talking to individual -- individual officials in states that might have been pressured?

LOFGREN: Well, we sent our investigators around the country to get information where we have leads that something is amiss. So, you know, Mr. Clark, Mr. Eastman are not the only individuals with information. We`re checking with others. And, you know, we`ve had more than 250 interviews so far. We`ve got more than 25,000 documents in our possession. We`re working hard to pore through it.

And, you know, there is no one person that has all the information here. So, it`s a matter of putting all the pieces together as best we can. But we do believe that both Clark and Eastman have information that the committee needs. They have a right if they think they`re going to be prosecuted on a case by case, question by question basis to assert their Fifth Amendment right against testifying against themselves. The committee will then have to make a judgment on whether to allow immunity so we can get the testimony. And that`s something that we`ll have to consider.

MADDOW: California congresswoman, member of the January 6th investigation, Zoe Lofgren, Congresswoman Lofgren, it is a real pleasure to have you here, late on a Friday night. I appreciate you for making the time. Thank you.

LOFGREN: Happy to do it.

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