MSNBC "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Zoe Lofgren

Interview

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O`DONNELL: Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of California. She is the chair of the Committee on House Administration and a member of the Select Committee to investigate the January 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

Congresswoman, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

Congresswoman, I want to begin with we ended there with Alex Jones. You have video of him saying to people at the Capitol go over to the other side. That`s where Trump is coming.

Alex Jones believed apparently what he was told by the White House, that Donald Trump was going to come up to the Capitol to join that part of his then movable rally.

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Well, yes. I mean, we want to learn a lot more about that. Also, each one of the individuals who received a subpoena today apparently had a role in raising money for the rally on the 6th, and in some cases, so-called stop the steal rallies earlier in December. And so we want to follow the money, find out how this whole riot was planned and paid for and the like.

And we think Mr. Stone and Mr. Jones have information that we need.

O`DONNELL: Did the committee make any attempt to get testimony from Roger Stone or Alex Jones without subpoenas?

LOFGREN: I think they made it pretty clear that they`re not going willingly come in. And we, as you have noticed I`m sure, are moving quickly. We have don`t want to engage in lengthy unproductive negotiations.

You know, when someone indicates a willingness to work out issues, we`ll do that. But we`re not going to spend a lot of time on people who are defiant.

O`DONNELL: Dustin Stockton, who was one of the three not so well-known people added to the subpoena list today is quoted by the question in the letter to him as having warned the White House that this could be a dangerous situation.

[22:10:11]

He said -- he said the suggestion of moving the crowd without a permit to the Capitol felt unsafe. He suggested that there was possible danger, and that was communicated to Mark Meadows. What do you know about that communication to Mark Meadows?

LOFGREN: Well, not as much as we need to know. We need to hear from Mr. Stockton exactly when he said that, Mark Meadows` reaction. How much of this was in fact directed by the White House and Mr. Trump or his staff? We need to find that out.

And as you know, we are pursuing Mark Meadows` testimony. But we can also get the information from Mr. Stockton. And by the way, he and his fiancee also played a role in fundraising for this riot.

O`DONNELL: There was surprising specificity on Alex Jones` show, but it was delivered by a substitute host on his show on December 31st, 2020, just seven days before the attack on the Capitol. Let`s listen to what he told the audience then.

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MATT BRACKEN, THE ALEX JONES SHOW GUEST HOST: We`re going to only be saved by millions of Americans moving to Washington, occupying the entire area, if necessary, storming right into the Capitol. We know the rules of engagement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O`DONNELL: Storming right into the Capitol. That`s the week before. That`s being communicated directly to the kinds of people who showed up that day.

LOFGREN: Exactly right. It was not only predicting, but perhaps incenting people to do exactly what they did, which was to try and overthrow the election through violence. We need to find out everything about that so that we cannot only shine a light on it, but see what steps we can take through legislation or other administrative steps so this never happens again.

This mob tried to essentially overthrow the government, and they came remarkably close. People don`t realize how close this was.

And so it`s really important that we get all of this information and prevent this from happening in the future.

O`DONNELL: Well, it does seem that -- given what we now know about it -- you could establish a security perimeter around the Capitol that would prevent this event from happening again on another January 6. But it doesn`t seem that you can change the direction of the Republican Party where it is now inconceivable that the next Republican vice president that we have would participate in a process that would give the electoral result to a Democrat in a presidential election.

LOFGREN: Well, one of the things we`re looking at is the Electoral Account Act which was drafted in the 1800s, and is not very specific and is not really -- it is not required in the way it`s drafted by the 12th Amendment.

So we`re going take a look at crafting the law so that the room for mischief is quite minimal.

The vice president actually doesn`t have any role in the Constitution, the 12th Amendment, except that he opens the envelopes. That`s all the Constitution says. He doesn`t really have a right to reject ballots, as Vice President Pence made clear. But I think we can take a look at the statute and have some success in narrowing the opportunity for mischief. You know, in the end --

O`DONNELL: Go ahead.

LOFGREN: Its voters. It`s the voters of America who`s will needs to be adhered to, not the Republicans saying, well, our guy lost. So we want to reinstate him anyhow. It`s not up to me or Republican members to decide who`s going to be the president. It`s up to the voters of America.

O`DONNELL: As we close out this discussion tonight on this November 22nd, 58 years after the assassination of President Kennedy, all of us who lived through that moment remember it vividly, remember everything about that day. And when you think about that presidential election, the Nixon-Kennedy election being decided by less than 1 percent of the vote, then the peaceful transfer of power was never, ever in question in 1960-1961 going into January. It is a long way we have come since where we were and our politics. Go ahead.

LOFGREN: I was never a fan of Richard Nixon, but he did the right thing. It wasn`t up to him to try and overturn the election. It was a very close election in 1960. But the people spoke and he did his job. This election in last year was not that close actually.

But former president started talking in April of 2020 about not -- maybe not adhering to the results of the election. So this is something that is a very alarming phenomenon, and really, Trump is the only one who`s ever done anything like this.

O`DONNELL: Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, thank you very much for starting off our discussions tonight. Thank you.

LOFGREN: Have a good Thanksgiving.

O`DONNELL: Thank you. You too. Thank you.

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