MSNBC "The Rachel Maddow Show" - Transcript: Interview with Rep. Pramila Jayapal

Interview

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Joining us now is Washington State Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal.

[21:20:03]

She`s chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. She has been active in these ongoing negotiations to say the least. She has been working hard for weeks trying to make sure President Biden`s agenda can survive -- all these substantial proposed cuts while getting the backing of Democrats.

Congresswoman Jayapal, it`s really a pleasure to have you here. I know it`s been a long day. Thank you.

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): It is great to see you, as always. Your optimist in chief is with you. Eyes uncrossed.

MADDOW: Thank you.

I wanted to talk to you -- I literally wanted to book you tonight because I was, like, I think Pramila Jayapal might be the one to talk me off the cliff. At least I know she is con constructively working on this. I have been close to the proverbial cliff on this.

Let me ask you about something that just crossed our radar in the last couple of minutes. NBC News reported that President Biden is expected to delay his departure to the G20 tomorrow specifically so he can go talk to you guys, so he can attend a 9:00 a.m. House Democratic caucus meeting tomorrow morning.

Can you confirm that that is expected to be the morning`s agenda? Can you tell us anything more about where things stand right now?

JAYAPAL: Well, that`s what I hear also, that the president is coming. Of course, we always welcome the president to come and talk to us.

But, Rachel, here`s the deal. When he goes to the G20, there is only one country that doesn`t have paid leave out of the G20. There is only one country that is 40th on the list of rich countries when it comes to childcare.

And so what I hope the president is going to come and tell us is that he has been agreement with Senators Manchin and Sinema to actually deliver universal childcare, pre-K, paid family leave, home and community-based care for elders, housing for the unhoused and real significant action on health care and on climate change.

And, unfortunately, this is where I`m just going to be real with you, I don`t believe that we have a deal from the two senators that we have been waiting on for months. And I understand that we need 50 votes in the Senate. But I just have to say that at some point this is about democracy and it`s not just, you know, progressives have continued to be at the table. We have continued to negotiate in good faith. We have continued to cut down the price tag.

Last time I was on with you, I mentioned we are doing it by trimming the number of years. But there are programs going off the table. Yet, we have two senators, one who can say I don`t want paid leave, a guy, who can say I don`t want paid leave. And another who can say I don`t want to roll back the Trump tax cuts.

These are Democrats. And Democrats have to show that we are together on the agenda that the president campaigned on. The president`s been doing a great job trying to negotiate, but at this point, we need those two senators to get on board so that we can show the world that we are actually go to deliver for people in a significant way so that we don`t keep pushing people away from democracy and government right here in our own country.

They see us not fighting for them. They see us not delivering for them so that they cannot just have a road or a bridge, Rachel, but so that they can have childcare, so they can get back to work. And that`s what I hope the president is going to say, but, unfortunately, I don`t think we are there yet.

So, here`s my optimist in chief. Let`s keep negotiating and let`s deliver both bills next week. We`re close. By need to keep negotiating. And the progressive caucus dozens of our members have said we are not going to be able to vote for one and leave behind women and families and others. So don`t put us with an arbitrary deadline again. Get both the bills done and deliver them to the president`s desk.

MADDOW: Now, the last time that we spoke you had just had a long two-hour meeting with Senator Manchin and I asked you if you expected that you might have it additional communications with him. I think, again, all of us looking from the outside think that progressives such as yourself, having one-on-one conversations with people like Senator Manchin and even potentially Senator Sinema, that is -- that must be the way that this gets resolved, that must be the way we make progress.

Have you had any additional meetings or conversation was him? Are those discussions still happening or is this all sort of being negotiated through public statements and the press?

JAYAPAL: No, I mean, I have had a number of conversations with Senator Manchin. I just talked to him today. So that continues.

Look, I think he is trying to get to a place where, you know, he can help us get this done. But I have not had those conversations with Sinema. But I do understand that she is talking to the White House. But we need to get this done. And we can`t expect progressives to vote for an infrastructure bill which, frankly, Rachel, there were a lot of progressives who didn`t like that -- it`s got some good things in it, but it is net negative on carbon emissions and there were a lot of people who said the only way I can vote for that is if we fix that with the Build Back Better Act and a real investment in climate.

That`s how we got people to agree to vote for a bill that was negotiated by 12 senators without any consultation from the House. So if we are going to get this done, that`s why we`ve always tied them together to say we will vote both these bills through and that`s where our members still are. And I believe we can get this done, but we can`t put an arbitrary deadline and say we got to vote something through tomorrow. We got to get the agreement of those two senators and actually be able to go back and say we campaigned, you gave us the House, the Senate and the White House on this agenda, and new we are going to deliver on that agenda.

And we`re close. I do believe we are close. But we got to hang in there and not try to push this for, you know, for a quick vote on one and leave out the other because I don`t think it`s going to work.

MADDOW: Could I is you tactically if part of the solution here is going to be figuring a reasonable-sized, you know, phone booth or a small sedan, maybe like a panic room, something just the right size where Senator Sinema and Senator Manchin can be put in a confined space together for quite some time so the two of them can come up with something they agree on so everybody else can negotiate against that? I mean, it seems like of the problem is you get Senator Sinema to say she likes something and Senator Manchin says, what does she say she likes, no, I`m against that, vice versa.

JAYAPAL: Yes.

MADDOW: The fact that the two of them don`t agree on anything seems like a formative problem.

JAYAPAL: That has been exactly the challenge. I will give out billionaire`s tax as an example. The original way that we were going to pay for this is roll back the Trump tax cuts and that was going to -- and go back to a real tax rate for corporations, you know, real tax rate for wealthy individuals so they pay their fair share. There is plenty of money here. No scarcity.

And then Senator Sinema said she didn`t like that. She didn`t want to do that. So then we got together, Senator Warren, Senator Wyden, others, came up with the billionaires act, a similar bill I have with Senator Warren, but a billion airs tax. And Senator Sinema said, yeah, I can go for that, 700 billionaires, we should tax them. They should pay their fair share. At least that gets us in the right direction along with other things. We have enough money.

Then Senator Manchin says I don`t like the billionaires tax. So this is the problem, exactly the problem. And I respect them both. We need them both. We need their votes. I am not denigrating them.

But what I am saying is that if you`re going to be a part of the Democratic Party, then be a part of the Democratic Party and let`s deliver on these things that are so important. There is just a little bit left to do here. Let`s get those things done and then we can all go and celebrate.

You know what? The president can really go to the G20 with a deal that is about a significant investment in climate, a significant investment in the care economy, a significant investment in housing, a significant change in our tax system so that the wealthiest are actually paying at least a little bit of their fair share.

I mean, this is what we have on the table, a significant investment in health care. You said COVID. We`re still in the middle of this, Rachel. We need to get help to people with expanding Medicaid, expanding Medicare, making sure that we continue the ACA subsidies. These are part of what is our responsibility to deliver if we are going to be able to say that democracy works. And that`s what we`re working towards right now.

MADDOW: Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal, chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, optimist in chief of THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW -- Congresswoman Jayapal, thank you so much for keeping us apprise tonight. I really, really appreciate it.

JAYAPAL: I hope I talked you off the cliff, Rachel. We are going to get there.

MADDOW: Yeah. You have at least given me a little rope ladder so I don`t have to plunge. I can control my descent.

Thank you so much.

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