CNN "State of the Union with Jake Tapper" - Transcript: Interview with Governor Mike DeWine

Interview

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, JANUARY 22, 2020)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): The consequences to the republic of overturning a democratic election because you don't like the result, because you believe that that election was somehow corrupted, when, in fact, the evidence shows that it was not, talking about how elections can't be trusted, that's an interesting approach.

I think it's crazy, frankly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

What a difference a year makes. That was Republican Senator Josh Hawley last January criticizing the Democrats' arguments during President Trump's impeachment trial.

I'd like to introduce Senator Josh Hawley to Josh Hawley, who is now leading the charge, with no factual basis, that has garnered 11 Republican supporters in the Senate to vote against the legitimate election of Joe Biden.

Joining me now to discuss this and many other issues, Republican Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio. Governor, first, congrats to -- on the Buckeyes.

We have a lot of coronavirus and vaccine news to get to.

GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): I'm very happy about that.

TAPPER: Well, some...

DEWINE: That's great news.

TAPPER: One small light for you there.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: I have to begin by asking about what's going on in your party right now and the Electoral College vote count on Wednesday, including a number of House Republicans from Ohio. And I'm not sure what Senator Portman is going to do.

Republican Senator Ben Sasse of Nebraska says the president and his allies, by fomenting this effort to vote against Joe Biden's legitimate win, he says they're -- quote -- "pointing a loaded gun at the heart of legitimate self-government."

Do you agree?

[09:20:08]

DEWINE: Jake, I think we need to put this in kind of historical perspective.

First of all, the framers of our Constitution set up a system that has worked, and it's worked exceedingly well. We do this -- we do this well.

Second, if you go back -- I was in Congress in 2005, when we had some Democrats who wanted to challenge and did challenge Ohio's election. And there was no basis for that. That did not work. So, this is not the first time that this has happened.

We're only, what, 17 days away from Inauguration Day. Are there some problems in the system as far as potential fraud or fraud that occurred? Yes, but there's not -- we have not seen anything that rises to the level that would have changed the outcome of the election.

I think Senator Portman -- you mentioned Senator Portman. I think Senator Portman has a good proposal. And that proposal is to get two very distinguished people in this country, Democrat and Republican, have a commission, and to take a hard look at voter security.

TAPPER: Yes.

DEWINE: We have a lot of people in this country who -- who are very concerned about it.

TAPPER: Because they have been lied to, Governor. DEWINE: And with the change in...

TAPPER: Governor, because they have been lied to by President Trump for -- for weeks.

DEWINE: No, no, no. Jake, Jake, hold on. Jake, time-out a minute.

Let's stay at the big picture. The big picture, with changes in technology, potential hacking, all of these things, we need to have a commission, as Senator Portman says, that takes a long look at this, not something you can do in 10 days, but to take a look at this.

Why is this important? If for no other reason than to -- there's a lot of people out there who are questioning this election. People need to have confidence in the system.

TAPPER: Yes.

DEWINE: And if you put together a bipartisan commission, that, I think, for the long run is something that really, really should take place.

TAPPER: So -- but, Governor, here's the thing.

First of all, in 2004-2005, that was a handful of Democrats. It was an effort that was completely disavowed by Senator John Kerry, who had just lost the election. There was no -- it was -- there were not big numbers about this.

The president -- or the Democrat in that case were -- was not calling for an overturning of the election. I'm not excusing those votes, but you cannot even remotely compare it.

Look, you were one of the first Republican officeholders to acknowledge the reality of Joe Biden's win. There are Republican senators -- this is -- don't forget me. Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse, others, there are Republican senators who say that people in your party are doing real, lasting damage to American democracy by fully embracing these dangerous conspiracy theories.

Whatever blue-ribbon commission you and Portman want to set up, that's fine. I don't care.

But this isn't about actual allegations of legitimate fraud. This is about fomenting lies in order to undermine the democracy. It's very different.

DEWINE: Jake, you -- you can make that point, but I will go back to my point. I think it's valid as well.

And what's valid about it is that we have a lot of people in this country who are questioning this election. That's a problem for us.

TAPPER: But why? Why? Why do you think they are?

DEWINE: Why? Look, you can go through why. The question for us is, what do we do

about it? And what we need to do about it is to, again, get some very well-respected people from both parties. Take a look at this. Now, I'm not saying they take a year to do it. But take a look at this and see, how are elections being run?

Look, I'm biased, but I think Frank LaRose, who's our secretary of state, and Ohio's system and former secretary of states in Ohio, Democrat and Republican, have done a phenomenal job. I think Ohio does it very well.

For example, when we -- when we do mail ballots -- we have done this for a number of years -- we have verification, based on these mail ballots.

TAPPER: Yes.

DEWINE: I think Ohio sets a very high bar. And that's what we're used to dealing with in the state of Ohio.

And I think, frankly, that should be the bar across the country.

TAPPER: So, we...

DEWINE: I'm not saying other states don't do it well.

But I'm saying we have to restore confidence in the people in this -- in this process. You can go through and talk about why we have this. The reality is, it's not healthy...

TAPPER: Yes.

DEWINE: ... in our system for that many people to think the system's not working.

TAPPER: Well, the why...

DEWINE: It's not.

TAPPER: I want to turn to COVID, but let me just make two points.

One is...

(LAUGHTER)

DEWINE: Yes, I would like to, because that's what I work on every day.

TAPPER: I know.

The one -- the why is important, because the why is that President Trump and his minions -- I'm not including you, and I'm not including Portman -- but President Trump and his minions have been lying to people for weeks now about this election.

And, because of that -- these people have been lied to -- they now have concerns. So, that's the reason.

[09:25:02]

And the solution is, they should stop lying.

The second point is, whatever blue-ribbon...

DEWINE: Well, it's not that simple.

TAPPER: It is that simple.

DEWINE: There are some interesting -- there are some -- no, no.

TAPPER: Let me just finish my second point.

DEWINE: Because there are some concerns that people can have.

OK.

TAPPER: The second point is, whatever blue-ribbon commission comes -- is formed, and whatever they conclude, President Trump will attack them, the same way that he has attacked every single Republican who has stood up for election integrity, whether it is the governor of Arizona, or the governor of Georgia, or the commissioner of Philadelphia, who's a Republican, or -- I could -- the Maricopa County Board of Canvassers.

I could go on and on.

But let's turn to COVID, because I know that's what you're focused on.

DEWINE: Well, let me -- let me say one more thing, then.

The system works.

TAPPER: Right.

DEWINE: The judicial system -- you and I have talked -- had this talk before -- it has worked.

You have had -- you have had Republican-appointed judges all the way to the United States Supreme Court who have made decisions. And I remember we had Democrats who said, oh, they won't be able to make good decisions. They have made decisions.

TAPPER: Right.

DEWINE: And it should restore some trust that people -- and the system does, in fact, work.

The judicial system works, and our mechanism for electing a president of the United States works. It works.

TAPPER: Well, tell your colleagues, because they're the ones who aren't -- who are not agreeing with it.

But let me just at least ask you, in the...

DEWINE: Let's talk about COVID.

TAPPER: Yes.

Ohio's administered about 150,000 vaccine doses so far. You said you're not satisfied with the rate of vaccinations. President Trump is blaming governors such as yourself for the vaccination shortfalls.

He tweeted -- quote -- "Some states are very slow to inoculate recipients, despite successful and very large-scale distribution of vaccines by the federal government."

Is President Trump right that this is a failure of state leadership?

DEWINE: Jake, first of all, we have to have -- and I said this last week in a press conference -- every one of us, from the governor all the way through, everybody has to have a sense of urgency of getting these shots out, because they are lifesavers.

And any time you have the vaccines sitting on a shelf and not out, we have a problem. And I made that point to everyone in the state of Ohio last week.

Look, we're doing pretty well in Ohio. We have got today -- I just looked at the numbers -- I think it's 160,000, it's 161,000, we're going to report today, shots that have been done.

We made a decision to go after the places and the people who are the most vulnerable. Over half the people who've died in Ohio have died in nursing homes. As of today, as of close of business last night, 61 percent of our nursing homes had had the first shot.

And so we're very happy about that. In another week, we will be at 80. Another week after that, we should be basically done with the first round of our shots in nursing homes.

We're also going to move within the next few weeks starting probably at the age of 80, and then working down very quickly through that, because, if you take people 65 and over, it is the vast majority of deaths that we have seen. And so we have a moral imperative to move just as quickly as we can.

And what I have told the people behind and I have told our team is, look, we cannot control how much vaccine is coming to Ohio every week, but we have an obligation to get that vaccine out. And we have...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Right, get it into arms.

DEWINE: To get it in arms just as quick as we can.

And things are picking up in Ohio, and we're moving.

TAPPER: What do you need from the federal government that it's -- that they're not doing right now?

DEWINE: Look, I'm very happy with the bill.

Look, could we use more money? Sure, we can always use more money. But the bill is very, very helpful.

We, in Ohio, I have told everybody, look, let's don't worry about what we can't control. Let's worry about what we can control. And what we can control is what we do with this vaccine when it comes in, how we prioritize it, how we get it in people's arms.

And we have got health care workers out there who are working every day to get this done. We have got the pharmacy -- pharmaceutical -- excuse me -- the pharmacy companies, Walgreens, for example, CVS, doing a phenomenal job in our nursing homes.

So, we just got to -- we got to stay at it. We want to get our kids back in school.

TAPPER: Yes.

DEWINE: We have also prioritized our kids.

And we hope, by March 1, to have every kid back in school in the state of Ohio.

TAPPER: You just heard the surgeon general say he's concerned that 60 percent of Ohio nursing home workers have elected to not get vaccinated.

That's, frankly, a terrifying statistic, given the loss of life we have seen in nursing homes, which you just noted.

DEWINE: Yes. Yes. And, of course, I...

TAPPER: You said you're not -- you said you're not going to mandate vaccinations, but do you think nursing homes and other health institutions should require their employees?

(CROSSTALK)

DEWINE: Look -- look, that's up to them,

But I think, Jake, this is an education. What we have seen is -- and I'm the one who came up with the number, and I said, look, this is what we're seeing. And my guess is, frankly, Ohio isn't much different than any other state, that, the first round, we're seeing only about 40 percent of the employees at nursing homes are taking the shots.

Now, they're going to get another chance. We're going to come back again. As we come back to give the second shot to the people who got it the first time, they're going to get a chance again. And I urge them -- and I will make this plea right now to anybody who works in a nursing home.

[09:30:00] You are there working very hard. You have great -- you have a risk. But, also, the people in that nursing home have a risk. And this shot does work and is, in fact, very, very safe.

And we -- what we have seen, Jake, is that the nursing homes that have come up with a good education plan before the person had to make the decision do they get a shot or not, they're seeing their compliance rate go up significantly from that 40 percent.

So, this is a work in progress. I just wanted to put that 40 percent number out there, because it's what we're seeing. And it is, as you say, alarming, as the surgeon general said, and we have got to improve it.

TAPPER: Yes, absolutely.

Governor DeWine, we will have you back to talk more about the progress you're making with the fight against COVID.

Thanks for your time today. Appreciate it.

DEWINE: Thanks, Jake.

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