MSNBC Hardball - Transcript

MSNBC Hardball - Transcript
Wednesday, July 13, 2005

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

MATTHEWS: As the debate over President Bush's nomination for Supreme Court justice heats up, the gang of 14, that bipartisan group of senators who came together in May to put an end to the filibuster on some of the president's judicial nominees, is meeting again tomorrow morning.

What's behind the meeting? One of the gang, Ohio Republican Senator Mike DeWine, joins us now to tell us what you're up to.

You guys are the peacemakers. Can you do it this time?

SEN. MIKE DEWINE (R), OHIO: We are just having coffee and donuts, Chris.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

MATTHEWS: Are you going to get us-get us a timetable? Is that the goal, so there won't be one of these filibusters?

DEWINE: No. You know, I don't think we are going to have a filibuster. I really don't.

The whole idea behind this agreement was that we would lessen the use of the filibuster. The filibuster has not historically been used for judges. It's really never used for Supreme Court.

MATTHEWS: Right.

DEWINE: And I don't think we are going to have a filibuster.

MATTHEWS: Well, what happens if, two seconds after the president announces his pick, say a week-and-a-half from now, and-within two seconds, I should say, the People For the American Way will have an ad on the air...

DEWINE: Well, that will happen.

MATTHEWS: ... saying, this is a catastrophe.

(LAUGHTER)

DEWINE: Well, that will happen.

MATTHEWS: It will happen, right?

(CROSSTALK)

DEWINE: Yes. We know that.

MATTHEWS: And you are going to hear from Ralph Neas and you will hear from Barbara Boxer, perhaps, and people on the Democratic liberal side of things.

(CROSSTALK)

DEWINE: Yes.

MATTHEWS: And you are say that is all discountable?

DEWINE: I think certain things are predictable. I think certain things are going to happen. Certain senators we know are going to oppose the president, without mentioning names. I won't.

But I think the real key is where the senators, Democratic senators, in the middle are going to be. Some of them were part of our, as you say, gang of seven plus seven. Others are not. But it's the more moderate senators, where they're going to be. And I think they're going to say, we need to have an up-or-down vote.

And I think that's really what the key is.

MATTHEWS: Well, the math is key here, to, because you have 55 Republicans. And if your party stays strong for the president, with maybe one or two exceptions, you need five or seven Democrats to get your magic 60, to get a vote, right?

DEWINE: Right.

And, Chris, we have to keep in mind, there are two questions. You might have a senator who says, I don't want to vote for this nominee, but I think this nominee should have an up-or-down vote. You could even do that, too, and split some votes off as well.

MATTHEWS: Let's take a look at what Senator Biden had to say last night about what he thinks the Judiciary Committee should look for-and you're on the committee-in a Supreme Court justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: I think we're looking for somebody that doesn't come with an ideological brief, someone who has an open mind, whether it's a person like the Justice Powell or Blackmun or someone like-and they were conservative Republicans-or someone like Sandra Day O'Connor.

And, by the way, it doesn't have to be Sandra Day O'Connor, doesn't have the same views, but someone who, Chris, comes to the court without a brief, in effect, with-with-with an open mind and not a closed ideology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEWS: Well, what does that mean to you as a Republican? He's a Democrat, Joe Biden. What is he saying to you?

DEWINE: I'm not really sure. I think the president...

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: He's saying no ideologues.

DEWINE: Well, I think, look, the president is going to pick a conservative justice. I don't think there's any doubt about that. We knew that. You knew that on election night. That is part of what the election was about.

But I think the president is doing what he should be doing. He's reaching out to the members of the Senate. You know, Chris, one of the things that our group of 14 really talked about-Senator Byrd, Senator Warner were very much involved in this-is, they wanted to make sure and we wanted to make sure that president did consult with the Senate.

That is taking place. Calls are being made. Senators have the opportunities to suggest names, to suggest whatever they want to, describe what type of a Supreme Court justice this should be. There's a lot of open communication going on now. And I think we are into this process. And I think it's a good process.

MATTHEWS: So, bottom line, you think we will have a new justice on the Supreme Court by the beginning of the session in October?

DEWINE: I think we will and I think we should. There's no reason we can't get this done. I think the president will take his time. I think he will go through the process.

But we are looking to try to have hearings right after Labor Day, I think is what Senator Specter said. We can do that and we can move forward.

MATTHEWS: Do you think we should outlaw abortion?

DEWINE: Chris, you know what my position is. My position is that I think Roe v. Wade was poorly decided. I think this is a matter that should have gone back to the states.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: So, you think we should leave it up to the states?

DEWINE: I think it should have gone back to the states. I think Roe v. Wade was not a good decision. I'm pro-life. You know that.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

DEWINE: And that's just where I am.

MATTHEWS: But you think the country would work OK where a country

· a state like Utah would say no abortions; a state like New York would say fairly easy? You would be comfortable in a quilt-like country like that, where it was different in every state?

DEWINE: I think Roe v. Wade was not decided correctly. I think even liberal scholars look at that and say that it's really not a great decision.

MATTHEWS: I think Ginsburg said that.

DEWINE: Yes.

MATTHEWS: Justice Ginsburg said that, yes.

DEWINE: And-and-and I think it was just-it was poorly-poorly decided.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: OK. Let's talk about this hot thing with Rove. Do you think Karl Rove has handled this whole matter with Joe Wilson situation correctly?

DEWINE: I know-I know Karl Rove.

And this is man of who-my personal experience with this man in the last few years, he is a man of great integrity, someone who is honest, someone-I'll tell you, he's the person who I call in the administration if I want to find out what really is going on, if I want to get a message to the president. He will tell me, Mike, we can do this. Mike, we can't do this.

You know, he is blunt. He is honest and he is straightforward. I have had a great relationship with him.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Do you think he is smart to keep quiet like he's done all these months?

DEWINE: I think that, ultimately, the facts are going to come out. There is a criminal investigation going on. We've got-I am an old prosecutor. I started as a county prosecutor almost 30 years ago.

And the one thing I learned is, you wait until you get all the facts in. This town, Chris, is going crazy. It's kind of typical Washington.

MATTHEWS: Right.

DEWINE: We saw it during the Clinton administration. Republicans were doing the same thing. Republicans were going crazy.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: Excuse me, Senator. Two years, he has been on this case calling witness. You have got to wonder if something is up.

DEWINE: Well, it's also, part of the issue, sometimes, when you get a special prosecutor, they take a long time, which is maybe another issue that you and I could talk about for a long time.

But I won't criticize the prosecutor. I think the prosecutor is, I'm sure-is-everything I know about him, he is very well-respected. And he is going about his business methodically.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

DEWINE: I would assume that he is going to get his job done, and the grand jury will do their work and we will find out what the facts are.

MATTHEWS: Patrick Fitzgerald, sounds like a tough guy to me.

DEWINE: Well, yes. It's a good-it's great Irish name.

MATTHEWS: Thank you very much, Senator Mike DeWine, a member of the House-Senate Judiciary Committee, one of the gang of 14 in the middle.

BREAK IN TRANSCRIPT

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551789/