NBC News " The Rachel Maddow Show"- South Carolina State Flag

Interview

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STATE REP. TODD RUTHERFORD (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: Thank you for having
me, Rachel.

MADDOW: First of all, let me ask you about what happened today in
the legislature. There was an overwhelming vote taken in both house of the
legislature, as I understand it, to at least take up the issue of the flag
on the capital grounds.

RUTHERFORD: That`s correct. In the Senate, they did it by voice
vote. In the House, we had 100 members, blacks and whites vote together to
say that we are going to take you have the flag debate. Last night, I told
your viewers, in fact, that we would begin two or three weeks from now.

I`m told now that we will begin even sooner than that, maybe as soon
as next Tuesday, depending on when the governor`s vetoes are announced.

MADDOW: That`s fast.

RUTHERFORD: That`s fast.

MADDOW: Next Tuesday, however, is still many days after Senator
Clementa Pinckney, or Reverend Clementa Pinckney killed in Charleston last
week, after he is due to lie in state tomorrow at the capital.

The reason I raised this issue of this specific statute that concerns
ways that flags can be taken down at the capital and still stay within the
letter of the law is because it seems to me that it is -- forgive me --
morally intolerable for him to lie in state beneath that flag. Do you
think that`s a possible loophole that could solve that problem?

RUTHERFORD: Well, you know, when I was on the state house grounds
today, I noticed the flag looked a little peeked. Some of the color looked
like it was wearing off.

So, I certainly did bring that to the attention of the governor and I
hope that she noticed it as well, and maybe takes the time to take it down,
because as you stated, it is abhorrent that the flag will be at full mast,
when the U.S. flag is at half mast, when the South Carolina flag is at half
mast, when the U.S. flags at half mast all around this country, but that
flag at full mast. If the U.S. flag is bowed, if the Stars and Stripes are
bowed, then why shouldn`t the Confederate flag be bowed or removed at a
minimum when Senator Pinckney`s body is going to lay in state, and lay in
the rotunda, at the state house?

MADDOW: Do you think there would be a backlash, do you think there
would be upset if it was brought down just for those few hours during that
ceremony for him tomorrow?

RUTHERFORD: Those people that have told you and many others that
they support this flag because of its heritage, even those people should
recognize if it`s heritage and not hate, then it should be removed during
the course of a funeral. I don`t know why we haven`t heard overwhelming
calls from those flag supporters to come out and say, the flag needs to be
taken down during the funeral. I don`t know where they are. And I`d ask
them, where are you? Why are you not coming forward saying that that flag
needs to be removed?

If the governor was to take the flag down because as I stated, it did
look like it need to be replaced, by the time anybody said anything, they
could replace it while Senator Pinckney was being buried in Charleston.
Again, he was killed by a man done under the colors of that flag. At some
point, justice has to be served and that flag needs to be removed.

MADDOW: Representative Todd Rutherford, top Democrat in the South
Carolina State Legislature -- thank you for your time tonight, sir. Thank
you.

RUTHERFORD: Thank you.

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